Heather Brooke [00:00:02]:
Before, when I was younger, I felt so alone. I felt like I was the only person in the world who had this problem. I struggled with low self esteem, low self worth, those sorts of things that actually led to me being very codependent as I was growing up and led to a lot of, like, unhealthy relationships and unhealthy behaviors. The one thing that I wish that I knew then, that I know now, is I speak on how God gave my pain purpose. And that's the one thing that I wish the younger me knew, because I would pray and pray and pray and pray for God to just take this away from me, just stop. Make me stop doing this. And it wasn't happening. And the reality is, if he had ever taken that away from me, that I would not have ended up writing my book.

Kevin Rolston [00:01:02]:
Welcome to Hairpod, the podcast where you get to hear real people talk about their hair journeys. I'm your host, Kevin Ralston, and each week I get to interview people from different walks of life whose lives have been touched by hair loss in some form or fashion. Many of our guests have experienced hair loss themselves and found a way to get their confidence and their hair back. In this episode of Hairpod, we want to call your attention to a condition that touches millions of people all over the world, but is still largely misunderstood. Trichotillomania is a disorder that causes people to compulsively pull out their hair, and it affects an estimated five to 10 million Americans, as reported by the Massachusetts General Hospital Trichotillomania clinic. But even though this condition is so widespread, it is still not well understood. Many people who have it don't know what they're dealing with and often end up feeling isolated and suffering in silence. In honor of trichotillomania Awareness Month, we want to shed light on this condition.

Kevin Rolston [00:02:04]:
We brought licensed professional counselor Heather Brooke back on the show to talk about her personal experience. As someone who has suffered with trichotillomania from a young age and as a therapist who also works with clients who suffer from the disorder, this is a heartfelt, compassionate look and what it's like to go through life with this condition and a resource for anyone who wants to know more about it.

Heather Brooke [00:02:32]:
Trichotillomania is a hair pulling disorder that causes the person who has it to physically pull out their hair. It can be from their head in their scalp, it can be from their eyebrows, eyelashes, or other areas of their body. But it is a behavior that's hard to control, and that's the difference between trichotillomania and typical grooming. Right? Like, we think women pluck their eyebrows, things like that. That's not trichotillomania. That's, you know, that's for grooming purposes. And so trichotillomania is the hair pulling that is uncontrollable and that we struggle with that causes baldness. What causes it is still up for debate.

Heather Brooke [00:03:07]:
There is really no rhyme or reason that has been identified to trigger trichotillomania or to cause trichotillomania. For me personally, as a therapist and having experienced it, I believe that my trichotillomania started as a result of childhood trauma. I experienced trauma around nine years old, and a couple of months later was when my trichotillomania started. And I believe that that was a direct result of the anxiety and stress and everything that I was holding inside of me because of what had happened that I wasn't talking about. And when we're not talking about things, it has to manifest somehow. And that was how it started for me.

Kevin Rolston [00:03:45]:
Help me understand it a little bit. The mind of somebody who has trichotillomania. What are you doing? Is it. It hurts, right? Is that part of the equation as to why you do it?

Heather Brooke [00:03:55]:
Well, and it's not even that it hurts, which is really interesting. As a child, you know, I developed trichotillomania around ten years old. As a child, I had a very tender head. My mom couldn't brush my hair without me being like, oh, you're pulling my hair. It hurts. Stop. Right. And so the difference was, if you think about it, with, with, when you're brushing your hair, especially for a female, when you're brushing your hair, the brush is running through strands, and so if it gets stuck, you're pulling a bunch of hair at one time.

Heather Brooke [00:04:25]:
That hurts.

Kevin Rolston [00:04:26]:
Right.

Heather Brooke [00:04:26]:
The trick is Lemania. It's typically one strand at a time. And so that's a different sensation for me personally. It started with my eyelashes, and it wasn't even intentional. I had an eyelash that was poking me in the eye, and I was trying to straighten it out, and in the attempt to straighten it out, the lash came out okay. And it was for me, like I said, all of that stress and anxiety that I was holding inside. As a therapist, I compare it to somebody who's cutting that. When you.

Heather Brooke [00:04:58]:
When that lash came out, there was, like, this short term release that happened, and that is what becomes, like, almost addictive or habitual. There's that release that happens when you pull, and you want to feel that again and again. And again. And so sometimes it's consciously and sometimes it's subconsciously. There would be times as a child I would have pulled when I finally started, like, pulling my hair and even picking at my eyebrows, there were times that I was doing it, not even aware that I was doing it until after it was already done.

Kevin Rolston [00:05:35]:
When does it start to get away from you? How long did it take before you noticed? And who noticed first because you're ten years old, did you notice or did an adult notice on you?

Heather Brooke [00:05:45]:
No, actually, I didn't really. I had. Didn't notice at first when I was a kid. I wish I had a picture when I was a kid. I had long eyelashes and, like, brooke shields eyebrows and really thick hair. Even now when I go to hair club, my stylist, when she goes to shave, under my system, she's like, your hair is so thick. Because I just. I really.

Heather Brooke [00:06:06]:
I really did. I had thick hair, and I competed in beauty pageants as a kid, and so I personally didn't notice that I was doing it. Cause I wasn't, like, looking in the mirror. That one pull, I was looking in a mirror because I was trying to straighten out that lash, the pulling. After that, I wasn't even looking in a mirror, so I wasn't even paying attention to. At ten years old, I'm not wearing makeup, so I haven't even paid attention to the fact that I've really done this. And my grandmother was actually the first person who noticed it and questioned me about it. And then I was like, oh, my gosh.

Heather Brooke [00:06:38]:
Like, I don't even. I don't even know what. Why I'm doing this or what I'm doing. Like, I can't be honest about it. And so I told her I was trying to use an eyelash curler and pulled lashes out with the eyelash curler. Like, I just totally lied about it because I didn't know anybody else who did it. Like, there was nobody in the nineties. There was no way of, like, you know, going to the Internet early nineties and finding out what you were doing or why you were doing it.

Heather Brooke [00:07:02]:
And so I felt so weird that I was just like, nope, I just lied about it. Evan?

Kevin Rolston [00:07:06]:
Yeah. How bad does it get for some people, yourself included? How many patches do you notice? And how far can trichotillomania go with somebody?

Heather Brooke [00:07:16]:
Yeah. So, for myself, like I said, when my grandma noticed, I realized that it was a problem. And then so I thought to myself, okay, if I intentionally pull from somewhere else, right? Cause I was pulling unintentionally and subconsciously from my lashes, if I intentionally pull from somewhere else, I'll stop pulling there. That's like saying, oh, okay. Like, I'm addicted to alcohol, so I'm gonna start smoking weed, and the alcoholism is gonna go away.

Kevin Rolston [00:07:42]:
Right?

Heather Brooke [00:07:43]:
Yeah. So it really, like, it just morphed into. Now I was just pulling my lashes and my eyebrows in addition to my lashes, and then it morphed from there to my head. You asked how bad it can get. It varies from person to person. Some people only pull from one location. That's their hotspot, and that's the only place that they pull from. Other people can pull from all over their body.

Heather Brooke [00:08:07]:
For me personally, mine was that it's worst my junior sophomore into junior year of high school, and I had, like I said, I'd had thick hair, and mine got to the point where, like, the whole crown of my head was almost bald and I was wearing a wig to cover it. But I've seen other women groups that I'm a part of the BFRB conference. There are girls, women, men who pull from, will pull all of their hair. Like, they won't have any hair. And so it just, that degree of severity varies from person to person.

Kevin Rolston [00:08:45]:
What Heather touched on here is so important to remember. Even though there are clinical diagnostic criteria that define what trichotillomania is, there are many different manifestations of this disorder. For some people, trichotillomania is something that can be resolved through therapy. But for others, like Heather, this journey is ongoing. When we recorded this interview remotely, Heather chose to come on video to show me the reality of living with this condition and share some of the things she does to mitigate the compulsion of pulling her hair.

Heather Brooke [00:09:21]:
I still struggle with it. Right. And I, like, I came on today, like, this morning, I was going to get up and do my hair and my makeup, and I was like, no, it's trichotillomania awareness week. So rather than coming made up, like, I would normally show up to something, you know, this is me, and this is, like, I still struggle. Right? Like, you can see, like, my eyebrows are thin. They're not super dark. They're, you know, they're so. They're, like, very minimal.

Heather Brooke [00:09:46]:
My eyelashes, I have, like, lower lashes, but I still have trouble, like, picking at my upper lashes.

Kevin Rolston [00:09:52]:
Oh, wow.

Heather Brooke [00:09:53]:
And I don't pull, really from my head anymore because of hair club and using a hair club system, because the system covers all of my hotspots. But it is something that for, even for me, as a therapist, like, I still struggle with it. And so there are things that we can do to minimize the pooling, but for a lot, there are some people who can, who stopped and are able to stop doing it. There's other people who, like, they can't ever get it under control. And so, again, that's a spectrum, because there is no, there's been some research done on it, but not enough research done on it that they have pinpointed. Oh, here's the medication you can take, and this is going to fix this for you. Here's tools that in skills that you can use, and this is going to fix this for you. At this point, there's just not been enough research done that to be able to establish those things.

Heather Brooke [00:10:39]:
And I've been a part of a couple of research studies that they're looking at genetics, they're looking at trauma, they're looking at all of these different blood work, all of these different things, mris and neurological, they're looking at all of these things, but there still just has not been enough research done to be able to find anything conclusive.

Kevin Rolston [00:11:01]:
Well, you mentioned something about how when you pulled the hair, it was a release for you and releasing stress. So is it something where you can just redirect and find a new trigger, a new release for that stress? Because we're all going to have stress. Is that part of trying to deal with trichotillomania, finding another outlet?

Heather Brooke [00:11:24]:
Yeah, and I think finding another outlet is part of that. It definitely is part of that. So, for example, like, for me, the gym is a huge stress reliever.

Kevin Rolston [00:11:33]:
Okay.

Heather Brooke [00:11:33]:
And the way that I get rid of anxiety, but if I'm in a moment where I'm in a state of anxiety or, you know, high stress and I need that release and the gym isn't possible. Right. Then it's like, okay, now what, what do I go to now? What is the go to now for this? And so it, sometimes it really is having multiple things to go to.

Kevin Rolston [00:11:56]:
Okay.

Heather Brooke [00:11:56]:
And then the, the intentionality to follow through with it, right. Like, if you find yourself in bed and you're picking in bed. Right. Like, okay, now I need to physically get up out of bed and go find something else to redirect my attention to. This moment passes, right. And so it really does become a lot of work to try to manage it. And so that's another thing. And I think that's another reason that for so many people, it's so difficult to overcome it because sometimes it is conscious, right.

Heather Brooke [00:12:28]:
Like, sometimes I can be 100% aware of what I'm doing. And then there's other times where it's subconscious and, like, I'm not even aware that I've done it until after the fact. And that's where the problem tends to come in. It's like, how do we reach the subconscious? And when we're doing it subconsciously, like, intentionally, when I recognize that I'm doing it, I can make a decision to redirect that and to do something different. But when it's subconscious, I don't have the ability to recognize that.

Kevin Rolston [00:12:56]:
You talked about at the age of ten, you're developing trichotillomania. Now, does it typically develop in children, or does it start later on in life, or can it be both?

Heather Brooke [00:13:08]:
Yeah, it can be both. Typically, we do see it develop in during childhood, and it's been in even as young as toddlers have developed it. But then there's also been cases of people didn't develop it until, you know, they were older. And then there's cases where it's been, I would say, maybe more situational. Like, this person is going through this really stressful time in their life, and this is their way of coping with that stressful time. And then once they've moved through that stressful time, it just stops.

Kevin Rolston [00:13:35]:
Wow.

Heather Brooke [00:13:35]:
And they don't experience it again. And so again, like, it's just this really weird spectrum of, there's no rhyme, reason understanding to it at this point.

Kevin Rolston [00:13:51]:
Despite the fact that studies on trichotillomania are on goal, and there's still a lot the scientific community doesn't understand about it. There are professionals out there like Heather, who are committed to creating resources that help people navigate this disorder. Heather wrote a children's book called where is my hair? To help kids with trichotillomania understand what they're going through. And if you want to check it out, make sure you go to the resource section of our show notes where we'll have a link for you to go to and learn more about the book.

Heather Brooke [00:14:28]:
My book is where's my hair? A tricklemania story for children. And I really like the inspiration came from a kiddo that I was working with who came to see me. She was nonverbal and on the autism spectrum, and she was about 14, and her stepmom said, her physical therapist said, or occupational therapist said she has trichotillomania. And they gave me a bunch of facts about trichotillomania, and I was like, the only thing that's accurate about anything you just said is the name of the disorder.

Kevin Rolston [00:14:59]:
Really? Wow.

Heather Brooke [00:15:01]:
Yeah. So the, you know, the OT or the PT had good intentions, but they had misinformation. And so I was looking for something to read to the little girl, because I do that a lot with child clients, is I try to relate to them through someone else's story. And as I went looking for a book to share with her, I recognized that there was stuff for therapists, there were stuff for adults, there was stuff for parents, but there was nothing specifically for children. And so I literally sat down at my desk in about ten minutes, used my personal story, including the doctor's name, who diagnosed me in the book, to write my story. And then I sent it over to my mom, and my mom illustrated it for me. Oh, wow. She's great at drawing.

Heather Brooke [00:15:47]:
She penciled out all of my illustrations, and we sent it to the publishing company. And the only thing the publishing company did was enhance my mom's illustrations in color. So it's kind of a collaborative effort between my mom and myself.

Kevin Rolston [00:16:00]:
That is so awesome. What a great story that is. Now, talking about your mom and dealing with this, she's obviously part of the equation. What would you say to a parent who's got a ten year old child that you notice they're having and suffering from trichotillomania and they're pulling and tugging at their hair?

Kevin Rolston [00:16:17]:
What does the parents start to do?

Kevin Rolston [00:16:19]:
Because I'm sure they feel frustrated and they don't understand this and they want to do the right things. How do parents handle this?

Heather Brooke [00:16:25]:
Yeah. And I think for parents, it can be just as stressful as it is for the child, because parents don't understand, like, my dad's response was, just stop doing it. Right. Like, many of us would be right. Like, just stop doing it again, comparing it to addiction. It's like telling an alcoholic or an addict, just stop using. Right. It does.

Heather Brooke [00:16:46]:
It's not that easy. I wish it was that easy, but it's just not that easy. And so one of the things that, of course, in the nineties, mental health wasn't as talked about and supported as it is today. So my parents didn't have any education on how to handle it, what to do, or for themselves. Right. Like, there was no counseling available for themselves. In fact, the only counseling that I got was a psychiatrist who was just making sure that I was taking medication and was just trying to treat the symptoms. She never asked me about, like, what happened prior to my pooling.

Heather Brooke [00:17:22]:
She never dug deeper to try to, like, figure out anything or actually provide counseling. She was just trying to put a band aid on things and, you know, do this, do this, do this. And so, you know, and then they. She provided no support for my parents in that, you know, either. And so for my parents, they didn't know, like, you know, they were doing the best that they could. My mom tried to be empathetic and understanding. I think my trichotillomania increased my dad's anxiety. And so then he, in turn, responded from a place of anxiety and, you know, which made it seem unempathetic or ununderstanding, you know, he didn't seem to understand it.

Heather Brooke [00:17:59]:
And for me, that was really hard, you know, rather than trying to be empathetic, understanding about it, he just wanted it to stop. And I think that was because of his own. It triggered his own anxiety. And so his response wasn't super positive, but so the one thing that I would encourage parents to do is to be understanding. Don't pass judgment on the child for what they're doing. Try to understand what they're doing. Don't expect them to just stop. Telling somebody to just stop is the one of the worst things that you can do because they don't want to be doing it.

Heather Brooke [00:18:31]:
At ten years old, I didn't want to do that. I felt weird. I felt like an outcast. Like, I felt like I was the only person in the world who did this. Like, I already felt bad enough without somebody telling me, just stop, when I would love to just stop doing it. So avoid telling them to just stop. But being understanding and sympathetic and empathetic towards them and try to understand what's happening. Asking them questions, asking them questions about it is kind of like suicide.

Heather Brooke [00:19:00]:
People are so scared to bring up suicide because, oh, if I bring up suicide, that's going to make somebody start considering it. No. Right? Bringing it up is normalizing it. Bringing it up is allowing someone to speak freely about it. And so this is the same concept. Ask questions. Don't make it something that they can't, that they feel shamed or shameful for talking about. Ask them questions.

Heather Brooke [00:19:23]:
What were you doing before you pulled your hair? How did you feel when you pulled your hair? What do you think we can do different when you feel that way? Like, ask questions, try to put yourself in their shoes and try to understand what it is that they're feeling, what they're experiencing versus judging the behavior.

Kevin Rolston [00:19:43]:
If you were a teacher or a coach and you have a student or player that is doing this, should you address it or should you ignore it and leave it to the parents to deal with?

Heather Brooke [00:19:54]:
No, I think, like, honestly, I think that if you pull the child aside privately and say, hey, I've recognized this, I've seen this. Are you aware that you're doing this? And then offering them the child, even though we do have Internet, the child may not know what they're doing. They may not know that it's a disorder. They may not know that it has a name. I meet adults all the time who I will go through an intake. They're not even coming to me for trichotillomania. I'll go through an intake and get to questions about behaviors, and they're like, oh, well. And I pull my hair, and then it comes out like.

Heather Brooke [00:20:30]:
And then when I tell them that there's a hair pulling disorder called trichotillomania, they're clueless. They have no idea.

Kevin Rolston [00:20:35]:
Right?

Heather Brooke [00:20:35]:
So they've had this behavior that they've been doing for years, but have no idea that it's an actual disorder. And so sometimes just with that adult who can be trusted, who can say, hey, this is a thing. We might want to have a conversation about this, or you might want to talk to your mom about this. You might want to talk to the school counselor or somebody about this that can open up for them the ability to start having a conversation with someone and talking about it where they might have been keeping it to themselves and closed off before. But if somebody can acknowledge it and identify it for what it is and then acknowledge it without judgment, then that could be really helpful for the student.

Kevin Rolston [00:21:16]:
So this is why we have trichotillomania. Awareness month is so that everybody can learn a little bit about what it's like. And a lot of people don't know, including adults who are out there with it right now, if somebody's listening that has trichotillomania, they said, oh, my gosh, this speaks to me. I've been doing this for the longest time. Where do they go for help? What would you tell them to do right now?

Heather Brooke [00:21:36]:
Yeah, a couple of things. First of all, counseling is always available, and counseling can help. Just because it doesn't help everyone doesn't mean that it won't help you. There's definitely things that you can do and things that you can try. Like I said, mine hasn't had gone away. I still struggle with it from time to time, but I'm also aware that there are things that I can do that decrease the desire to pull. When I change my diet and eat healthy, when I cut out caffeine, when I cut out sodas when I cut out carbs, that changes my desire to pull. Like, I recognize when I start adding those things back into my diet, my pooling intensifies.

Heather Brooke [00:22:13]:
So there are things that we can do that won't stop it, but can definitely help decrease the desires and the urges of. So getting into counseling is a great first step, depending on how bad it is. Talking to your stylist at your salon about, you know, for women, extensions that, you know, to. Just to build your self confidence. Right. But if it's beyond. If you're in a position where it's beyond extensions, wigs is always an option.

Kevin Rolston [00:22:40]:
Okay.

Heather Brooke [00:22:40]:
I have a whole closet full that I use just for fun, but then also hair club, you know? And I can't say enough about hair club. I've been a member of hair club since 2017. And for me, that has been, like I said earlier, like, I use the ERC strands plus. And that system covers my hotspots. So that keeps me from having to be even being able to access the spots that I would pull from, because the system covers those areas. And so they. And they have a number of options for men, women, children. They have hair club for kids.

Heather Brooke [00:23:13]:
So if you have a child or you're a child under the age of 18, they give free services to children under the age of 18 through their hair club for Kids program. And they made my book part of their hair club for Kids program. So there was a point when I first published that any kid who signed up for hair club for kids got a copy of my book. And my book is in a lot of their lobbies and waiting rooms in the different centers. And so that would be another. That's another option. And they have different options. It's not just hair systems.

Heather Brooke [00:23:42]:
They have wigs, they have extensions. They have growth treatments to help your hair grow faster. So you don't have to feel alone, you don't have to feel isolated. And if you just doing something to help build your self esteem, like using hair club or going to your salon and getting extensions or something to help build you up, there is. If it's beyond your head. Microblading the tattoos, the permanent makeup is an option. I've had microblading done before. Loved it.

Heather Brooke [00:24:11]:
It just doesn't last. But, you know, there's all kinds of options out there to build your self esteem, to make you feel better and to feel good, but counseling is going to be a huge piece of all of that.

Kevin Rolston [00:24:26]:
Thankfully, there are so many options to help people who are experiencing trichotillomania. Whether it's a matter of choosing a hair loss solution to help build up confidence, or working with a counselor like Heather to mitigate the symptoms, its important for folks out there struggling with this disorder to remember that there are things you can do to improve your situation. But even with all the support in the world, the journey is still an emotional one. I asked Heather to reflect on her experience and share something she wishes she could tell her younger self during the most challenging moments she went through.

Heather Brooke [00:25:06]:
Before, when I was younger, I felt so alone. I felt like I was the only person in the world who had this problem. I struggled with low self esteem, low self worth, those sorts of things that actually led to me being very codependent as I was growing up and led to a lot of, like, unhealthy relationships and unhealthy behaviors. And the one thing that I wish that I knew then, that I know now, is, you know, I speak. I'm the reigning Miss West Tennessee for America, and I speak on how God gave my pain purpose. And that's the one thing that I wish the younger me knew, because I would pray and pray and pray and pray for God to just take this away from me, just stop, make me stop doing this, and it wasn't happening. And the reality is, if he had ever taken that away from me, that I would not have ended up writing my book, right? Like, if I had stopped pulling at 18, 1920 years old, I wouldn't have written my book. And my book was the first book on the market for children with trichotillomania.

Heather Brooke [00:26:10]:
And so it kind of started setting the stage for children to be able to learn about that. And then I won the inspire you networks children's author of 2023 last year for my book. And I just would not be making the impact today that I'm making had I not had my own experience and the experiences that came from that. It's made me a better counselor, it's made me a better professional. I relate to my clients on a different level than a therapist who hasn't been through any of the things that I've been through. And so, like, I see how what I went through had purpose, and I would encourage others to find the purpose behind, whether they believe in God or not. I believe in God as a Christian and a follower of Christ. I believe God gave my pain purpose.

Heather Brooke [00:26:57]:
But for even for people who don't believe aren't believers, you can still find purpose in what you've gone through and what you're going through. And so I just encourage people to look at what you're experiencing and to know that there's going to be a purpose in it.

Kevin Rolston [00:27:15]:
I want to thank Heather for coming on the show to share such an inspiring message of hope. Whether you have trichotilloman media, youre looking for guidance or youre just learning about it for the first time. We hope her story resonates with you. Remember, youre not alone. And thanks to people like Heather, there are resources out there to help you navigate whatever challenges you may be facing. If you know someone who is struggling with trichotillomania, we hope youll share this episode with them. And dont forget to check out her book, where is my hair? By clicking the link in our show notes. For more inspirational stories and words of wisdom from people who have been through hair loss, make sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app.

Kevin Rolston [00:27:55]:
Thanks for listening to another episode of Hairpot. Check us out at Hair Club on Instagram or search Hairpot on Facebook to continue the conversation. If you know someone who could benefit from hearing this episode, we would love it if you would share it with them. If youre enjoying the show, consider leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. We also have a website. Check it out by going to podcast dot hairclub.com. we're here to build people up and share real stories so people experiencing hair loss feel a little bit less alone. And when you share, review, and subscribe, it helps us do just that.

Kevin Rolston [00:28:32]:
So thank you. Until next time.