Claire Fullam [00:00:04]:
You really have to dig deep and really care about yourself again because there's some parts of you who's let that go along. That way, maybe you're bottom of the pile. You're not looking after yourself a little bit. This is a whisper from your body to you to try and get you back on track again. You are as entitled to be here with hair or no hair. So try and give yourself that to care about yourself enough, because if you stay down too long, it's really, really hard to kick the bank of the river and kind of swim back up for breath.


Kevin Rolston [00:00:49]:
Welcome to HairPod, the podcast where you get to hear real people talk about their hair journeys. I'm your host, Kevin Rolston, and each week I get to interview people from different walks of life whose lives have been touched by hair loss in some form or fashion. Many of our guests have experienced hair loss themselves and found a way to get their confidence and their hair back. In this episode, I spoke with returning guest Claire Fullam, who began her hair loss journey over eight years ago. Claire and I previously discussed how her struggle with hair loss had led to addiction recovery and self discovery, inspiring Claire to create her Internet Persona “Claire Balding”, and to pursue a career in trichology. Claire has returned to HairPod to share her insights on living with alopecia areata through her own personal experience with hair loss and work as a trichologist. Claire has discovered that alopecia areata cannot be resolved solely through external approaches, but must also be addressed on an emotional level. She emphasizes the importance of self-care, finding community, and seeking the support of a specialist.


Kevin Rolston [00:01:52]:
Claire encourages listeners to share their stories and avoid minimizing the emotional impact of hair loss.


Claire Fullam [00:02:03]:
I went to a dermatologist, a trichologist, loads of different doctors. I tried every, you know, thing that was out there at the time, every kind of treatment plan. But I stuck with the trichologist, and I was with her for about 20 weeks, and we did loads of, like, LLP therapy at the car. We did a lot of lotions and potions. We did a lot of, like, electrolysis work as well on the scalp. And to be honest, Kevin, now, knowing what I know now, and I'm a trichologist now, right? And I have a big patch of alopecia up here as well. Like, I always get patches. Like I had.


Claire Fullam [00:02:35]:
I have a big, full head of hair, still get patches all the time. It's like the type of alopecia I have is alopecia areata. So it's like, it's an autoimmune condition. So it's like a psoriasis. You know, somebody who has psoriasis, it will flare up and then it will disappear, and it will go through different bouts and all that kind of stuff. So that's the type of alopecia I had. So I did loads of different treatments. But really, I think what was the making of me and the reason why I have hair today is because I spoke about it.


Claire Fullam [00:03:02]:
You know, I was such a person who used to internalize every slight worry that I had in my life. I used to never want to express myself because I didn't want my mom to worry or my dad or my husband to worry. So I used to internalize. I was one of those, like a swan on the water, you know, like, I looked like I had it all together, but underneath I was panicking. And I think through my work now, like, I meet people with alopecia areata all day, every day. And it's always the same type of personality. It's always people who take on a lot from other people. They're the friend of everybody.


Claire Fullam [00:03:37]:
You know, you'll take your shirt off your back, like that kind of personality. And, you know, it's funny how now I can see that, okay, the lotions and potions and the laser light therapy could have helped. Of course it does, because it will bring blood up to the follicle and that will encourage hair growth. But actually, what it was was taking that hour every week for myself. So every Wednesday, I used to go into the clinic. So I used to have to leave work half an hour early, and I used to get the bus in, and I used to listen to my music, and I used to go into the clinic, and then I used to come home, and it gave me that, like, sense of control. Does that make sense? It gave me this kind of. Right, okay, I have no hair now, but what am I going to do to try and help myself with that? So.


Claire Fullam [00:04:22]:
Or I washed my hair with the shampoo. They told me to. I did this, I did that. So it was a level of a plan. And the power of a plan is so, so important for people that are going through something which is so unpredictable. So I think, like, that was really, really important that I kind of had something to do. Does that make sense at all? Like, I had something to do every week, which I speak to my patients about all the time. You know, there's so much.


Claire Fullam [00:04:46]:
And even, I mean, that was eight years ago. There's so much more therapies out there that we know of now that we can help people with. But I really believe that no lotion or potion, no vitamin, no stress relieving therapy will stop an autoimmune condition. You have to learn how to work alongside that a little bit. And I always say now, like, when I get a patch, like, I have one up here now, there's little hairs growing out of it. Thank God it's there about eight, nine weeks now. It's like a whisper from my body. It's like a cleaner.


Claire Fullam [00:05:17]:
It's like, be careful. It's an autoimmune condition. So, like, you've got loads of different systems in your body, right? So the ones that we're going to top on air, like your nervous system and your immune system. So your nervous system is the one that controls all of your emotions, okay? So when you are physically stressed or emotionally stressed, she'll whack her sister, because that's what sisters do. Okay? So your immune system then goes up and up and up and up. So she goes off on one. And all along this invisible ladder here, there will be different rungs, which some people with autoimmune conditions, that little switch will be kind of gone off, and it will keep going back there. So when I ever get stressed, one of the first things to go is my hair.


Claire Fullam [00:05:56]:
So it's an autoimmune condition that I can slightly control, but not always control, you know, depending on what's going on in my life. I know for me, it's when I'm not really taking care of myself, when I'm bottom of the list, which happens as parents, doesn't it? Right. And as a business owner, like, you're always bottom up the list. I take on too much all the time, you know, and it's a different type of stress now because I have so many people to provide for. You know, it's not like it's just me and the kids and my husband anymore, but other people's families that I need to look after as well. So that different type of pressure and stress, I know that I wasn't looking after myself about three months ago, and now this is the result of that.


Kevin Rolston [00:06:41]:
Alopecia areata doesn't just go away. Stress management is key for living with any kind of autoimmune disorder, but it's not a fix all at the same time. External treatments alone are not enough to prevent flare ups. Managing stress, scalp maintenance, and creating a plan for ongoing care can make a huge difference.


Claire Fullam [00:07:05]:
I think a lot of people, again, this is a common thread that I see through people with alopecia is that they don't have very many boundaries, you know, they don't have very many. They're people yet. Yeah, no problem. No problem. Hair's on the ground, you're not going to wake.


Kevin Rolston [00:07:18]:
It's such a personality type.


Claire Fullam [00:07:19]:
It sounds like such a personality type. And it really only happens to people as well that have a lot of hair. You would never see somebody rarely. Yeah, you'd rarely see somebody with an appeche areata who has fine hair. They have big, big, big hair. It's like your body knows what to pick. Does that make sense that Claire can survive without this patch of hair? You know? But, yeah, like, I suppose what I do is I listen now and I get stuff off my chest because I used to kind of internalize a lot and I used to not speak about things. I will unfortunately ring my friend, ring my mom, talk to my husband, and I will say I need help right now, and I'll dish out the jobs and I'll delegate and all that kind of stuff.


Claire Fullam [00:08:01]:
I try as well to get more sleep again, your body will get stressed if you don't sleep enough. So look at your diet as well. I could reduce sugar at times to try and manage inflammation, all that kind of stuff, but there's not one single thing in that group, Kevin, that will stop my autoimmune condition. And I think sometimes alopecians have to forgive themselves sometimes, because again, we're not very good at that. And I think that it's not our fault that this happens to us. This is the way your body will commute, will kind of communicate stress to you. And some people will be like, well, you shouldn't have ate that, or you shouldn't have done this, or you should. It's going to happen anyway.


Claire Fullam [00:08:36]:
You know, it's going to happen anyway. So it's about trying to manage that as much as you can and not beat yourself up too much about it. But, yeah, there's loads of stuff you can do. There's so many things that we should do all the time. But listen, sometimes we need a bit of a kick up.


Kevin Rolston [00:08:49]:
We all slide a little bit.


Claire Fullam [00:08:50]:
Yeah, yeah. Right.


Kevin Rolston [00:08:52]:
If somebody's listening right now and they have alopecia, and let's say that they are where you were when they are just noticing a little bit of hair missing in a spot, what do they need to do right now? Do they treat it right away? Do they wait? And if they do something right now, what is that thing?


Claire Fullam [00:09:10]:
I would say get into a good routine. Try and maybe look up a trichologist in your area or a dermatologist. I'm not always the biggest fan of going straight to medicine because I think that drugs have side effects. Like any drug will have a side effect. And a lot of alopecia, especially alopecia areata, is something temporary. So you don't need drugs to try and get over that. I would say get into a simple scalp routine. You should be exfoliating your scalp, you should be washing your scalp regularly, and you should put something on the patches that would have some level of growth factor on them.


Claire Fullam [00:09:42]:
And some of the biggest brands in the world have growth factors within them. You know, stimulators.


Kevin Rolston [00:09:48]:
Would that be a minoxidil, a Rogaine, something like that? Is that what you're referring to?


Claire Fullam [00:09:53]:
Yeah, not really. Minoxidil would be something that would be used for more of a chronic condition. So maybe like female pattern, male pattern hair loss, angiogenetic hair loss, and a piece of ariasa. It is a like, it can be temporary at times. If you go in with a minoxidil, you'll become reliant on that minoxidil. And when you take minoxidil away, you could have a bit of a dread shed. So be careful of minoxidil. I would say things like there's those of energizing potions and lotions out there, like ice nioxin.


Claire Fullam [00:10:20]:
I'm sure you have nioxin over in the states. All of those kind of big brands would have something stimulating within them. Caffeine, rosemary, all that kind of stuff. But I would say try and get some sound advice in terms of a process. As I said, that little plan, you don't have to go somewhere every week, but if you had, okay, I'm going to exfoliate my scalp every single week. I'm going to wash my hair every second day, and I'm going to stick on something stimulating onto the patch to try and encourage while I work this out, while I contact a trichologist, while I go to the dermatologist. Steroid injections, like, if it was pretty bad or if it was just one big patch, a steroid injection, a cortisol injection from a dermatologist would be really, really stimulating to that kind of way. And that could help grow the hair back as well, I suppose, as well.


Claire Fullam [00:11:05]:
Like Kevin, like, what I would like to kind of get across is that it can get really dark, really quick hair loss, you know, and I think that a lot of people would understand that who have gone through it. And I think that it becomes very, very out of control. What I would say to people is, when I had no hair, people still loved me, I could still do my job, people still wanted to be around me. I was still exactly the same as I am now with loads of bloody hair, do you know, that kind of way? And I think that it's really, really hard in those moments to see that, but I think that, and it's a really hard lesson to learn, and I've had to learn it the hard way as well. And I've gone through so much over the past eight years to be where I am today. But you really have to dig deep and really care about yourself again because there's some part of you who's let that go along that way, maybe you're bottom of the pile. You're not looking after yourself a little bit. This is a whisper from your body to you to try and get you back on track again, you know, and you're not here.


Claire Fullam [00:12:06]:
It's an absolute miracle any of us are here, right? So you are as entitled to be here with hair or no hair. So try and give yourself that grace to care about yourself enough, because if you stay down too long, it's really, really hard to kick the bank of the river and kind of swim back up for breath, you know, that kind of way. So, yeah, be annoyed, be upset, be angry, but you dont let it take over your life.


Kevin Rolston [00:12:37]:
Neglecting our own needs can have serious consequences on our physical health, hair loss or no hair loss. Im sure many of us share the experience of preparing for a big event or a presentation only to find ourselves sick from overexertion. Unfortunately, you dont recover from hair loss in a few days. For most of us, it's something you must learn to live with for the rest of your life. Claire shares some tips on managing the flare ups that come with alopecia areata.


Claire Fullam [00:13:06]:
A lot of people with alopecia, particularly alopecia areata, have a lot of hair. So if you had like two patches at the back of your head, you go to the best hairdresser in town and make sure they're going to be able to cover that up for you in the day. And I would like, don't feel silly about it, like, I know you might be the bride, right, but go and get like a trial. So if it's in six weeks time and those patches are annoying you three weeks beforehand, go and sit there and let's discuss this. And they'll be only delighted that you're coming in and trialing this a little bit. There's loads of temporary hair pieces as well. Kevin, of course, like, you don't have to get a full blown wig. There's so many systems out there that can be sewn in for a week, you know, can be glued on for two weeks, all that kind of stuff.


Claire Fullam [00:13:48]:
So I would try and investigate as much as possible in terms of what your options are. Just be careful. If it's something like alopecia areata or something that has the ability to grow back anything that you put on there, it's really difficult sometimes for that hair to grow underneath. Does that make sense? So, like, I always say to people, you know, when you're out in the garden and you've got your little flower or your little watering can, and you put the watering can down on the grass and then you forget about it. So, like, two nights later, you come and you take the watering can off that patch of grass, right. And what that grass looks like. So just be careful in terms of if you have hair that you can save, don't put that watery can down on it too long. Okay.


Claire Fullam [00:14:26]:
So go and investigate a little bit and understand what type of loss you have.


Kevin Rolston [00:14:31]:
Yeah. Some very valuable information. Is there anything else that you could tell somebody that is listening and saying, I want to plug into a community and I want to get more information. What are the top resources for that that you have found? You talked about getting a hold and trying to find a trichologist of your own in the area where you are. There's obviously your social media account that people can check out. Is there any other places you would recommend for information or community?


Claire Fullam [00:14:54]:
Yeah, like, I think Alopecia UK, which is obviously Great Britain's version of Alopecia UK, so we don't actually have one here in Ireland, but Alopecia UK is an amazing resource, and of course, anyone from around the world can access that as a resource as well. But I'm sure in the states there's an alopecia.com as well that will help. And I think, like, honestly, entering those communities, like any community, like, I know from getting sober, like, you need people, you know, you need people around you that understand what you're going through, you know, because, like, that you will have people in your life that, like, it's not that bad, or she loads of hair, like, and they're trying to be kind, but they're actually just making the whole thing worse. What they're doing is they're diminishing your pain that little bit more. Because then what starts to happen is you start to feel, oh, God, like, maybe I am being vain about this, or maybe this isn't a big deal, and you start to diminish your pain a little bit, you know? So I think you do need to surround yourself with people 100%. Trua is, if I do say so myself, Kevin Trua is a great resource, you know, on instagram, in terms of just learning about how the scalp works, because, you know, I found that I remember asking, I'm so annoying. Like, I go into the dermatologist, like, but why? They'd be like, oh, go away. Just take this medicine.


Claire Fullam [00:16:10]:
I don't want to see you again. I was so annoying. Or the trichologist, I'd have their heads wrecked. I'd be constantly asking them different questions and stuff. It's so important for people to really understand their condition. I can't tell you that enough. If someone has frontal fibrosis, alopecia, angiogenetic alopecia, they're losing their hair during menopause, after baby male hair loss, DHT, if you understand those little bits right, it's not going to take that away, but it's actually going to make you go, okay, again, I'm driving. Again, I understand this.


Claire Fullam [00:16:44]:
Again, it's more within my control and within my reach to help myself with that, you know, so I can't recommend trying to really investigate that and get loads of different opinions on it, because unfortunately, with hair loss, doesn't matter how much I study, right, or a dermatologist study or whatever else, there is only so much research out there because it's not killing people. Okay? So, you know, I remember the doctor would say to me, I'll tell your grandchild, off you go. But, like, it does kill people. I know people who haven't left their homes in 1012 years. I know people who have taken their lives from hair loss.


Kevin Rolston [00:17:25]:
Hair loss shouldn't be taken lightly, even if it is often overlooked in the realm of well funded research, the experience of hair loss can erode our self confidence and deeply affect our mental health. This becomes increasingly true in a culture where we are constantly bombarded with unrealistic beauty standards. Regardless of who you are, how old you are, or why youre losing your hair, its always a challenge. I was curious about what differences Claire had observed in men and women experiencing hair loss.


Claire Fullam [00:17:56]:
From speaking to hundreds of men and women in the same situation. It's as emotionally, you know, that toiling on a man or a woman, I think that if you lose your hair, depending. It really is, you know, and there's a lot of emotions that go with both, and it equally hurts them. But it's easier because society allows a man to be bald so he can live his life. You might get a couple of comments from his colleagues or his brothers who are his friends, but eventually it will be okay. Whereas when I was bald, I could not leave the house without my hairpiece ever, because I would just be open to scrutiny. Open to, is she sick? What's wrong with her? And all these questions, because that's society, you know, and society, you know, will always, you know, in our lifetime, anyway, hold women to an unachievable beauty standards, you know, and I think that that's a real issue. So it's not that it's easier on men.


Claire Fullam [00:18:55]:
I don't think so. Personally. I think it's the same, but it's a society allows a man to live without her. And I really hope one day when I see bald women. I actually saw one yesterday. She was absolutely beautiful, walking along the beach in the south of France, living her best life with her bald head. She looked beautiful. I just get so much pride and so much joy that she hasn't allowed that shape her life.


Claire Fullam [00:19:20]:
You know, she is living her best life because you can live a really gorgeous, successful, love, joy filled life with no hair. You just have to be brave enough to try and capture that. It's not just the hair loss. It's all the other stuff that people experience around that. People, women sleeping in hair pieces their husbands don't even know, you know? Again, that's more his problemo, to be honest. But I think that there's so much more to it. I remember we did a survey two years ago, and we asked women who had lost 70% of their hair more. Describe how you feel.


Claire Fullam [00:19:57]:
And some of those words, Kevin, were like, you'd choke up reading them, you know? And three women wrote suicidal. And I had to ring them, and I rang them and said, I don't even know what I can say to you, but I want to make sure you have someone to talk to. And they were so thrilled that we took the time to listen to them, you know, because I think this isn't a frivolous vanity. It's nothing to be ashamed about. Unfortunately, most of us will suffer with some form of hair loss in our lives. It's the aging process. Ultimately, you know, some of us will go through more extreme than others, you know, and it will shape their lives, and it will change their lives. But all of us will go through a form of it, or someone close to you will too, you know, and I think that the more people have conversations with it and about it and around it, the better we are then helping others do that kind of way.


Claire Fullam [00:20:46]:
I think it's so, so, so important.


Kevin Rolston [00:20:53]:
During our conversation, I felt a growing appreciation for the way Claire expressed the emotions of hair loss. It can be a devastating experience and is so often exacerbated by isolation. Alopecia areata can be especially unpredictable, but there are ways to work with it. Finding a community that truly understands what you're going through firsthand and can share resources and encouragement can be life changing. We hope Claire's insights have been helpful. If you'd like to hear more from her, make sure to subscribe to the show so you can check out our previous conversations with Claire on hair loss and mental health. Take a look at our show notes to find links for Claire's social media and the resources she mentioned during the episode. Thanks for listening to another episode of Hairpod.


Kevin Rolston [00:21:37]:
Check us out at Hair Club on Instagram or search Hairpod on Facebook to continue the conversation. If you know someone who could benefit from hearing this episode, we would love it if you'd share it with them. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast to we also have a website, check it out by going to podcast dot hairclub.com. we're here to build people up and share real stories so people experiencing hair loss feel a little bit less alone. And when you share, review and subscribe, it helps us do just that. So thank you. Until next time.